The Proletariat Speaks!
| From: linda | 8/12/03 7:05 PM #401
|
| E-Mail: linda69@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Brazil | |
| Politics: I Believe in Gods | |
| Subject: it\'s look interesting. Thanks. | |
| it\'s look interesting. Thanks. | |
| Reply | |
| From: anime | 8/13/03 11:22 PM #402
|
| E-Mail: going3000s@aol.com | |
| Country: Antarctica | |
| Politics: Conservative | |
| Subject: this is my last post. Thanks to all of you. | |
| this is my last post. Thanks to all of you. | |
| Reply | |
| From: Paul Egan | 8/14/03 1:18 PM #403
 |
| E-Mail: sirpaulegan@yahoo.co.uk | |
| Country: United Kingdom | |
| Politics: Libertarian-Capitalist | |
| Subject: | |
| All very interesting | |
| Reply | |
| From: Borèya | 8/15/03 2:29 PM #404
|
| E-Mail: Boreya@web.de | |
| Country: Holy Roman Empire | |
| Politics: Anarcho-communist | |
| Subject: nice! | |
|
hey, that's how a 1984-site has to be. really great. i think, you have also chosen the right color. it reminds me of something i once read 'all this propaganda is just brown sugar'. i just have one stupid little question. is the chestnut tree a symbol for something? i mean, you surely can make it a symbol when you read the book but has it been one before orwell wrote it? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: scarfaceslacker | 8/15/03 9:56 PM #405
|
| E-Mail: scarfacslacker@cs.com | |
| Country: Roman Empire | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: your site rules! | |
|
i read the bok for school, and now i've sen the movie, it's a damn good story, one of th best orks i've had the pleasure of enjoyin in many year. Thankyou for makng this awesome site, and keep up the good work....by the way DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER DOWN WITH BIG BROTHER |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 8/17/03 3:44 AM #406
 |
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Fuckin' commie scum (Replying to post #382) | |
|
>>However I impress on to you actually read >>the Communist Manifesto, or study some at >>least some Social Science... Your opinions >>have clearly been blinded by biased, >>idiotic and certainly xenophobic American >>politics. I have read it. And so have a lot of dictators throughout history. The only form of socialism I support is syndicalism, since it does not increase the power of the state. Unfortunately, 99% of real-world socialist prefer state socialism (Social Democracy, Communism) instead of what I would consider real socialism, which empowers the average person instead of the state. And until all the socialist out there end their love affair with the welfare state I will continue to disparage the socialist movement. I have my reasons proclaiming my support for syndicalism very often. To say the one supports 'socialism' in any form confuses most people, since the average person had no concept of socialism past the welfare programs, universal health care, corporate bail-outs, Soviet-type systems, and other such centralizations of the economy. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: anime-girl | 8/18/03 1:10 AM #407
|
| E-Mail: 83423@usa.net | |
| Country: Costa Rica | |
| Politics: Anarcho-communist | |
| Subject: I will add this page to bookmark. | |
| I will add this page to bookmark. | |
| Reply | |
| From: ZsïgE | 8/19/03 12:37 AM #408
|
| E-Mail: not.telling.you@overly-protective | |
| Country: United Kingdom | |
| Politics: I Believe in the Power of Cheese | |
| Subject: Yeah, yeah, liberal-bashing... (Replying to post #407) | |
|
To be honest, I don't want to get dragged into a giant debate on the benefits of liberalism and...er...conservatism? Is that the opposite? Anyway, this is my general opinion...feel free to not answer if you want to avoid a long-drawn-out and pointless argument. First up, I really, really hate being classified as a "liberal" because I support the basic idea of the welfare state. I'm automatically told that I'm obviously far off to the left wing, and want to steal the food out of hard-working peoples' mouths. Remember, there is an almost infinite number of political positions within the "left wing", and we're not all after the complete redistribution of goods equally. Second, I support the welfare state because I have no wish to see people go hungry, or go without the good things in life, because of bad luck. Note that I'm not in favour of those who can't be bothered to work getting paid. The idea of the benefit fraud investigators, despite their ominously Orwellian recent adverts in the UK, is that people sponging off the system can be stopped. My position is that if you have a lot of money, you should shoulder more of the responsibility of helping those with less. People who can't get a high-powered job because of lack of opportunity (the Bransons and Gateses of this world are few and far between) or, indeed, lack of intelligence should not be blamed for this. I would be perfectly willing, if I was much richer than I now am, to give much more than usual to those with less. You may disagree. Still, I really doubt that having three BMWs and two swimming pools would give me all that much happiness. I am not poor, and I am extremely glad that I am not. However, to see people who do live below the poverty line (my town has one of the highest homeless rates in the UK) makes me think that I cannot possibly support any system that does not guarantee adequate, nutritious food (yes, many poor people are obese, but do you think that's a sign of health?) and healthcare to anyone who needs it. That said, I wouldn't trust politicians as far as I could throw them to do anything I wanted. Vote Official Monster Raving Loony Party, and make a political statement without letting the far right in to power. ZsïgE |
|
| Reply | |
| From: HentaiCartoons | 8/19/03 11:54 PM #409
|
| E-Mail: dsfyui@onlinecartoons.com | |
| Country: Costa Rica | |
| Politics: Complete Idiot | |
| Subject: Privet, thanks for good work. | |
| Privet, thanks for good work. | |
| Reply | |
| From: mugu | 8/20/03 12:29 AM #410
|
| E-Mail: mumu@guy.man | |
| Country: Panama | |
| Politics: Anarcho-socialist | |
| Subject: very | |
| very good sit keep it up | |
| Reply | |
| From: mugu | 8/20/03 12:34 AM #411
|
| E-Mail: mumu@guy.man | |
| Country: Panama | |
| Politics: Anarcho-socialist | |
| Subject: | |
|
This page writes a cookie to your system that stores your user profile (user name, e-mail address, home page, etc). This gives you the benefits of being 'registered' with this chat room, (namely, it keeps you from having to re-enter information every time you visit the site), without requiring me to keep a database of users on my server. You may therefore rest assured that the only information I keep recorded on my end is your post. Whoever said that cookies were a bad thing?... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl The Sturmer | 8/21/03 9:28 AM #412
|
| E-Mail: carldiesturmer | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: Ultrabastard Cultural Marxism (Replying to post #406) | |
|
...WHO CONTROLS THE CULTURE (KULTUR) CONTROLS THE THINKING OF PEOPLE... Now boys and girls of Oceania and allied Oligarchical blocs. I present you with the Marxist Troyan Horse that permeates the US Media and academic discourse: THE FRANFURT SCHOOL A.K.A THE INSTITUTE OF SOCIAL RESEARCH, which developed and implemented cultural marxism in the USA first in universities then the mass media, and has sought to destroy core American values, that does NOT mean Reaganomic or Bushite pseudo Conservative (Neo-conservative) values and ideas, for Christ's sake these neo-cons are neither WASPS nor Christians and hate Islam and Christianity and its conservative values, they run the Establishment. Same group who brought us the Franfurt School are also part of the Neo-Conservative -False Republicans-. http://www.propaganda101.com/SocialPsychology/frankfurt.htm |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl The Sturmer | 8/21/03 9:39 AM #413
|
| E-Mail: carldiesturmer | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: Doublethink/KulturKampf at Work in the USA of OCEANIA (Replying to post #408) | |
|
Charity Yes! Forceful Confiscation of wealth No! You have point there, before organised state welfare there were charities run privately often by the Church, however they have dissapeared (YMCA anyone?). Any way check the article on the Frankfurt School to see who's been messing with the proletariat's head via the Mass Media. On one last point, quite a large number of Republicans who advocate no welfare state for poor individuals are for Corporate Bailouts though, doublethink, proles bad, corporate good, these brand of conservaties are just not consistent. Biggest socialist is the Pentagon after all, it is called the Military-Corporate Welfare State. THE NEW DARK AGE- The Frankfurt School and "Political Correctness" by Michael J. Minnicino The Frankfurt School: Bolshevik Intelligentsi http://www.propaganda101.com/SocialPsychology/frankfurt.htm |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 8/21/03 6:09 PM #414
 |
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.net | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Libertarian-Socialist | |
| Subject: important site | |
|
visit: http://www.thememoryhole.org recent upsub: http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/iraq-combat/ "When the White House published the text of and photos from Bush's speech announcing the supposed end of the Iraq attack, the headline read: "President Bush Announces Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended." But on Tuesday, 19 Aug 2003, the Cursor website noticed that the headline had been changed to read: "President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended." The word "major" had been added. Apparently, with the quagmire resulting in at least one dead US soldier a day--not to mention even more injuries, dead Iraqis, and sabotage--that headline had proved incorrect. Therefore, straight out of 1984, the headline was stealthily altered to make it seem as if that's what it had always said." |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 8/21/03 6:58 PM #415
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Libertarian-Socialist | |
| Subject: superstates | |
|
global superstates (Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia) double plus rapid formation : Oceania == NAFTA Eurasia == EU Eastasia == China / Japan / korea zone config 08/03 Oceania unipolar power. Miniplenty acquire petrol resource IRAQ prevent islamic pseudo-superstate buffer client for Eastasia. Oceania debt and miniplenty management rectify unipolar system to multipolar system. Terminal when Russia merges EU, forming eurasia superstate : portugal to alaska. Unipolar rectify questions ref in EastAsia milspeak reviewed by minipax vox in minisci website 2000: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/doctrine/pills2/ nonzero probability analysis: 1. Oceania neocon maintain unipolar strategy. Economic self-off. Neocon intensify minitrue fullwise rectify into old speak: "democratic fascism - elections occur, but have no meaning as both nodes of the spectrum are so close as to make choice meaningless. Meanwhile the superstate slides into a permanent economic corrosion." 2. Neocon failure, Oceania opts to multipolarity. Reduced minipax expense results in plus good economy, superstates submit proxy wars for advantage in miniplenty resources. If neocon unipolar Oceania >10 years, econofailure probability @ unity. Oceania failure trajectory coincident to EastAsia ascent, indicates direct minipax action between 2012 - 2020. Eurasia to "ally" with Oceania, but only to assist in Oceania de-unipolar to permit Eurasia ascendance into unipolar. WS 08/21/03 |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 8/22/03 2:39 AM #416
 |
| E-Mail: eric_a_blair@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Libertarian-Capitalist | |
| Subject: Elections are but a mere formality-THEY LIVE! (Replying to post #415) | |
|
Good literary attempt. Old news though. The next step is to create free trade within these blocs and create a single trading currency for each plus a centralised regional government. USA is progressing a free trade deal with Latin America. NAFTA at large and monstrous, next comes the abolition of the US dollar and the creation of AMERO the American trade bloc single currency. It all has been in the making for the last 100 years, George Orwell came into contact with these people while fighting in the Spanish Civil War. EASTASIA= ASEAN-APEC AUSTRALIAN+NEW ZEALAND to join OCEANIA's bloc of english speaking countries. Libertarians Unite, We have an enemy, his name is Big Brother and he must be destroyed! http://www.lewrockwell.com/ DEATH TO BIG BROTHER!!! DEATH TO BIG BROTHER!!! DEATH TO BIG BROTHER!!! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith's diary | 8/23/03 1:20 PM #417
|
| E-Mail: WinstonSmithDiary@doctorvondoom.com.oceania | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: The days of US dollar are numbered (Replying to post #416) | |
|
The Rise of Three World Currencies... there is a long term decline of the US dollars at it ceases to be the main world trade currency. Countries are switching to the Euro for trade and to undermine their dollar denominated debts, consequent USA will not be able to buy cheap raw materials for the Ministry of Peace. Oceania The US budget and trade deficits continue to expand these pressures will make the Proto-Oceanic Bloc unstable, currently allies are core English-speaking nations, US, England and Australia. Eurasia Assimilation of Russian State, problematic for Euroasian Proto-Bloc State, highly unstable central government, unable to fully exert force on warring ethnic/nationalist factions. However abundant natural resources are target for merger and acquisitions by its ministry of economics centred on its German-France core. Read the US dollar v Euro and its ascendancy http://www.thinkandask.com/news/thedollar.html Alas Farewell USA, I loved you, you were my dream, a dream for billions of people and the nightmare has began. 24/08/2003 The Winston Smith Diary |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 8/23/03 8:26 PM #418
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Down with Eurasia (Replying to post #415) | |
|
>>Eurasia == EU I was just thinking the same thing. It's scary when you here these EU'ers talk. They speak as though Europe is already a single nation. They call those who still cling to any sense of national identity tribalist... as if they are some sort of ignorant natives that just don’t realize that their nation has been conquered and dissolved. 'We [Western Europeans] have only a limited time to stop the slide towards tribalism before it engulfs eastern Europe and quite possibly takes us with it..' - Eurocrat Jacques Attali, former head of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development. Quoted in A Burgess, Divided Europe (London, 1997), Of course Europe very nearly was one nation before, but that fell apart in the early 1940's. Apparently some people never give up. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eurasianhistorian@eurasiapsyops.eu | 8/25/03 6:34 AM #419
|
| E-Mail: redbigbrother | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: The Origins of Fascist Eurasia (Replying to post #418) | |
|
Eurasia Rising, the origins of Eurasia since WWII http://www.freenations.freeuk.com/news-2003-08-20.html |
|
| Reply | |
| From: JoeyNormal | 8/27/03 1:21 AM #420
|
| E-Mail: joeynormal@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-socialist | |
| Subject: You, sir, are a complete and utter twat. | |
|
Firstly, George Orwell was an anarcho-socialist. I strongly suggest that you read Homage to Catalonia, as it is an autobiographical work detailing Orwell's role in the Spanish Civil War, fighting for the [Proudhonian] Anarchist POUM militia. For a self-proclaimed libertarian to dedicate his site to a socialist, and then attempt to - rather poorly - critique socialist thought seems somewhat ironic. I believe the word for such is doublethink... Secondly, all this blather about "CrimeThinc" seems to me to be something of a bad ripoff of the seminal Anarcho-punk site, Crimethinc, an anti-capitalist, anti-statist, anti-American site which strongly advocates a form of Bakunite Anarchism, shoplifting and militant violence included. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eurasianhistorian@eurasiapsyops.eu | 8/27/03 8:45 AM #421
|
| E-Mail: redbigbrother | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: If live in the Multiverse............. (Replying to post #420) | |
|
Correct Facts on Orwell, read the Down and Out In Paris and London, pretty good stuff and very funny. ----------+++++++++++++------------ Is it something really romantic about destructive anarchists and "I take your money, effort and family" socialists? I say we play SIM City and run it on Libertarian, Anarchic-Socialist, Anarchic-Syndicalists, Statist-Socialist, Statist-Fascist ,Elite-dominated,progressive Left-Liberal Society programs. Anyhow has someone asked the proleriat wheather they agree with our party platforms? Each gamer has to make it on the political program intact to the end, too risky to run the 'real world' version. Now let's think of the incentive for the players as prizes....hmmm I like Caesar myself as the provincial 'g'venor'... Knock yourselves out dudes, chappies, mates and guys!! Long Live the English Peoples of the World! The Great Hope of the World is with Us. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 8/27/03 8:53 AM #422
|
| E-Mail: me, me, me and me too! | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: Bushwhacker (Replying to post #420) | |
|
Bush Plays Counterstrike on steroids against the Fantom Menace! Achtung Soldats! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 8/28/03 1:30 AM #423
|
| E-Mail: me and me | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: Oligarchical Collectivism:Practical Tips (Replying to post #422) | |
|
"The Party holds on to power for its own sake" Neo-Conservatives are neither conservative or christian http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html?story |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 8/28/03 3:22 AM #424
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: superstate formation | |
|
webmaster recdep newspeak dictionary posted: >>Eurasia == EU I was just thinking the same thing. It's scary when you here these EU'ers talk. They speak as though Europe is already a single nation. << Eric Blair prole posted: >>Old news though. The next step is to create free trade within these blocs and create a single trading currency for each plus a centralised regional government.<< Fullwise agreement. Not old news. rewrite post shortful. Note webmaster: EUrasia and Oceania superstates. US/Oceania leading way to glorious victory Ingsoc. BlairE upsub correx: Oceania fullwise economic. Standard process: set currency value fixed rateUS Dollar. New currency ungood. Projection: continued neocon policies bankrupt treasury, results - destabilised currency, forcing US Dollar to alloy Canadian and Mexican dollar. Danger: Oceania de-unipolars, EUrasia attempts Unipolar. Sets Oceania against EastAsia per Terror War. Minitrue maintain goodthink during econofailure, Oldthink thoughtcrime model: "Marxian class contradictions" results: Oceania failure under neocon economodel, Oceania (expand- Australia, NZ Finlanded) liberation EastAsia failures, doubleplus ungood. Ultra collateral damages, EUrasia on top. Recommend: Learn French or German. Solution: fight neocon in 2004. If Dem=DLC, then Oceania unipolar. If Dem=unDLC, then planned de-unipolar Oceania, troika superstates miniplenty resource grab South. If unDLC dem in 2008 and 2012, then Oceania dismantles Ingsoc neocon. If neocon 2004, econofailure 2005 - 2006. WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 8/28/03 7:57 PM #425
|
| E-Mail: youknowitalready@whyrepeatitagain.antiworldblocs.nihilia | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Single Currency for NAFT and FTAA, DOUBLEPLUSUNGOOD! (Replying to post #424) | |
|
DOUBLEPLUSUNGOOD WARNING:CODE RED Released only recently by the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) a few proposals at draft stage that recommend the creation of a NAFTA/FTAA single currency AMERO, also mentioned as a way to combat a sharp depreciation and currency instability (brought about George Soros and his comrade speculators) in Eastasia a single currency bloc. Of course we are meant to believe that their intentions are not the same as those of the EURASIAN Oligarchs. Pay attentin to the BIS papers! Forward page 11 http://users.erols.com/kurrency/encinas.pdf Page 157 http://www.bis.org/publ/bispap17.pdf History of monetary areas http://www.bis.org/publ/bppdf/bispap17c.pdf ECONOMIC ENTRAPMENT VIA FREE TRADE BLOC LEADS TO POLITICAL/MILITARY BLOC AND ECONOMIC ABSORBTION. What are the Neo-Cons planning? Create such a montrous government deficit that will lead toa devaluation of the US Dollar to such scale that will require a merger, integration or abolition into a new regionalist bloc currency. The Lord is my shepard, I'll fear nothing, Death to Big Brother. Chase the story from this string http://www.google.com.au/search?as_q=Amero&num=10&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Single+Currency&as_oq=USA&as_eq=&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&safe=off |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 8/28/03 9:18 PM #426
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: BlairE Prole Info (Replying to post #425) | |
|
SmithW @ minitrue sends thanks to BlairE for upsub re: Amero. SmithW not capitalist or libertarian, but shares BlairE bellyfeel hate for superstates. SmithW experiments in Oldspeak thoughtcrime: <oldspeak> I am deeply concerned that the phenomenon of the superstate may be a necessary outgrowth of the overpopulation problem. American democracy as envisioned in the Constitution made perfect sense for a spread out agrarian nation of 13 million. But whether Oceania (USA / CAN / MEX) with a population of 437 million (per miniluv docs at : http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/index.html) extremely diverse people can properly administer to the needs of such within the framework of a minarchist repubic cannot be simply answered "Yes". The results are very clear: a stolen election in the electoral college, an imperial presidency, a winner take all political structure that enforces what is effectively a single party state, etc. What worked for 13 million is failing the 437 million. The advantages of the Eurasian superstate is that it's an "opt in" system - more like a confederacy than a repubblic. A country jumps through some hoops, and is let in to the eurasian superstate. As noted earlier: when Russia joins, the party's over. EastAsia is too far behind the 8 ball and too poor to compete. Oceania is too centralised and reactionary to cope. The only possible winner is Eurasia. The interesting thing is something the post modernists discussed back in the 1980s (Virilio, Deleuze, Guattari, Baudrillard, et al) which is in a few different directions: 1. the process of endo-colonialism (where a state colonises its own people) 2. the relationship between centrality and periphery 3. the role of the state as guarantor of protection for the underclasses at the mercy of private interests. 4. the role of the war machine as an object external to the state. This collection of problems are all resolved in a superstate to greater or lesser degrees. In Oceania's case, the war machine is clearly external to the state, as the state is simply the machine by which the interests of the ruling class are protected or projected. The fiasco in Iraq is simply the latest adventure by the Oceanian War Machine. As the war machine is expensive and requires funding by the state, all other programs in the state must then be subordinated to the war machine. The best way to do this is to bakrupt the state. At bottom line, the Army is Always Fed. In this way, the state as guarantor of protection for the underclasses is completely destabilised, providing a shortcut to pure tyrrany at the hands of the new militarist state. In order to maintain order, certain areas will be consciously under developed (endocolonialism - a prime example in the USA is Appalachia, and the proof of the one party state is Senator Byrd who opposed the Iraq intervention but represents West VA...) to ever greater degrees, areas can even be aabandoned to banditry (viz south America) while other areas live in comparative comfort. This brings us to the relationship of the center to the periphery. In the USA it's the coastal cities and education hubs in the midwest vs. the rural areas (a hold over from the Revolution of 1860 - 1865, where the wage slave industrial capitalists beat the slave state agrarian manorial system.) with similar disparities in political disposition. On a global level, it's the unipolar power of the USA vs. the likes of Chad, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc. Center vs. periphery. Right now, the periphery has access to enough technology to mount resistance to the forces of the center - all of it very predictable. The only way to dismantle the situation is through depopulation. However, rapid depopulation would result in catastrophic social dislocation and economic disruption. Therefore it must be done slowly and consciously: hence the sad necessity of superstates. The big question is: who will rule Oceania? EastAsia (china) is already a single party system. Eurasia acutally has something resembling multiple parties. Oceania's winner take all system prevents multiparty systems. Therefore, I have grave misgivings about the future, and given the size and collective consciousness of the populace, my vision borders on apocalyptic. </oldspeak> SmithW upsub sysdat readout thoughtcrime simulation ends. WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 8/29/03 6:26 AM #427
|
| E-Mail: me, me, me and me too! | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Yes Bro' Orwell is da' man! (Replying to post #426) | |
|
X-cellent commentary Winston Smith. Now we are learning to use the imagination of 1984, let's make George Orwell proud and let's honour his memory and descendants let's fight in the upcoming war against Big Brother. If you come to London pay a visit to George Orwell's grave, get a look here and pay your respects http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/l.j.hurst/ggorwell.htm or http://orwell.ru/bio/grave/english/ For the English People of the World!!! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 8/29/03 3:10 PM #428
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: re Carl Rectify (Replying to post #427) | |
|
Carl thoughtcrime: "X-cellent commentary Winston Smith. Now we are learning to use the imagination of 1984, let's make George Orwell proud and let's honour his memory and descendants let's fight in the upcoming war against Big Brother. If you come to London pay a visit to George Orwell's grave, get a look here and pay your respects <snip> For the English People of the World!!! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Winston Smith upsub rectify Carl thoughtcrime. Orwell first. Many followed. Superstate formation transparent to thoughtcrimers, opaque to goodthinkers. Problem: To provide doubleplusgood alternative to superstate. Problem: 50 years superstate formation has global inertia. Problem: Minitrue doubleplusultra power viz CNN / FoxNews / BBC and other voxs for neolib / neocon Ingsoc. Problem: anti-Ingsoc forces splintered across thoughtcrime lines, eg Left v Right, Collectivist v Capitalist, etc. Problem: no profit model for alternative to superstate... Therefore: Neocon owns military, co-opts media into minitrue, bankrupts USA forcing NAFTA superstate into existence (Oceania), Inner Party plus wealth at expense of proles and smalling Outer Party (who are automated out of existence). <oldspeak> Results: economic failure. Results: more brazenly stupid military campaigns. </oldspeak> Thoughtcrime from Orwell inspired prolefeed movie: "When one speaks of England, one should speak of BRAZIL." Honouring grave of Orwell creates personcult for prolefeed. Fighting superstate and Ingsoc unuseful. Controlling Ingsoc and superstate useful. Per Center/Periphery, spread sense of superstate to Outer Party. Let Outer Party lead Proles against Inner Party. Marx thoughtcrime correx: class warfare unstoppable. Once control of superstate with Outer Party, begin population reduction. Automation deworks proles, underclass grows, but proles disappear as population reduction makes labour shortages making proles Outer Party. Superstate proxy wars for resources nearterm high, but ungrow overtime as demographic pressure fails. Eurasia and Oceania merge. EastAsia and South Asia merge. Africa forms superstate in 2040, but unstrong to compete. West Asia, central africa maintain proxy wars for Superstates until end of petroleum era ca. 2060. Demographic reduction no results until 2110. 2350 world population stabilised at 500 million. Prole work by robots. Outer Party rules global ultra-state confederacy indefinitely, as Earth becomes state and appropriate space colonies found, imaged, and tested. end Winston Smith thoughtcrime simulation. WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl C | 8/30/03 10:41 AM #429
|
| E-Mail: carl_jcordova@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Conservative | |
| Subject: NEOCON 101: has president has been neoconed into war ? (Replying to post #428) | |
|
Pondering on the detour to the world of 1984 Sounds good Winston however, I fear more the ageing populations in Western Europe, North America and Japan, how can an Empire/s be sustained in the long term with this problem? Also reducing the population from 6 billion to a mere 500 million is a ' tad ' problematic without resorting to a massive war conflagration or epidemic. Next question can the Supranational States remain viable in the long term with this demographic problem? Will China and India will the Imperial Game in the long term any way? Also will England (Airstript One) join USA/NAFTA/FTAA Amero Currency bloc as it is culturally more acceptable than joining the Franco-German Euro. I heard Australia (+NZ) is seeking a Free Trade treaty with USA, preconditions for NAFTA downunder? Learn everything about the Neo-Con jobbers at the Christian Science Monitor special NEOCON 101. (or how get Americans killed for Israel). http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html Salud!! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 8/30/03 4:22 PM #430
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: future superstate (Replying to post #429) | |
|
CarlC prole thoughtcrimed: >Sounds good Winston however, I fear >more the ageing populations in Western >Europe, North America and Japan, how >can an Empire/s be sustained in the long > term with this problem? <smithw thoughtcrime simulation> 1. Destruction of retirement instruments, make oldthinkers into workforce. Recent example: dotcom economfailure. 2. doubleplus increase productivity. >Also reducing the population from 6 >billion to a mere 500 million is a ' tad ' >problematic without resorting to a >massive war conflagration or epidemic. Uncorrex. Rectify: Hold max repro goodsex : 2 kidz. If 2 per, then (x) gene pool remove before goodsex repro per accident or disease. (y) decide no goodsex repro per sexID or unplenty, (z) other. Stat average 2 kidz = approx 1.75 goodsex reproRate, or 12% decline rate = = reduction by half in six gen. Gen = = 20 years. Decline 1/2 in 120 years, achieve doubleplusgood target demographic in 18 gen or 360 year. Include war/disease and target achieved in less time, hence predict 2360 @ 500 million. >Next question can the Supranational >States remain viable in the long term >with this demographic problem? Yes. Hundreds of years of miniluv proxy wars create quiet centers in superstates. Demographic decreases, superstates depower, merge. First merger: Oceania and Eurasia ca. 2150. >Will China and India will the Imperial >Game in the long term any way? No. India site of proxy wars. Both doubleplusultra oldthinkers and untravelers per material history. India / pakistan fratricidal proxy war destabilise Oceania and Eurasia. Any result (india or Paki win) = = stronger border with China and unstronger subcontinent brought into EastAsia orbit - client states. EastAsia, Eurasia and Oceania req. integral India prevent Islamic pseudo superstate - Syria -> Phillipines. >Also will England (Airstript One) join >USA/NAFTA/FTAA Amero Currency bloc >as it is culturally more acceptable than >joining the Franco-German Euro. If Airstrip One IQ +, Airstrip One joins Eurasia If Airstrip One IQ-, Airstrip One joins Oceania If A1 joins Eurasia, to serve as link to unify Oceania and Eurasia. If A1 joins Oceania, A1 econo isolates, fails. > I heard Australia (+NZ) is seeking a Free >Trade treaty with USA, preconditions for >NAFTA downunder? Read smithw newspeak dictionary upsub 8 28: "Oceania (expand- Australia, NZ Finlanded)" >Learn everything about the Neo-Con jobbers at the Christian Science Monitor special NEOCON 101.< Neocon history known: http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States) Right Wing Opponent Speaks: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2003/cr071003.htm LeftWing opposition fullwise known : no link req. </smithw thoughtcrime simulation> WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl C | 8/30/03 11:44 PM #431
|
| E-Mail: carl_jcordova@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Conservative | |
| Subject: Kudos! (Replying to post #430) | |
|
Doubleplus good commentary Smith W! Reading the Wikipaedia now. Hey the Frankfurt School and the Ne-Conservatives have both ideological Communist/Socialist origins and are from the same ethnic group. What's going on here? American Left and Right dominated by the same rascals? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 8/30/03 11:59 PM #432
|
| E-Mail: eric_a_blair@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Von Goldstein V Von Eisentein? (Replying to post #431) | |
|
On Carl C's comment; this could explain why the Liberal Left has sought to build a World Government through the United Nations (instituttionalist approach), where as the Republicans(the Hawk-military wing) has sought to build an American Empire with the US as the direct hegemon , consequently both embroiled America into this political and military fiascos and interventions, which will lead America's into its economic destruction. Time to drink Victory gin and smoke Victory Cigarrettes... Voting Democrat does not mean the Democrats will be quanrentined from the ethnic Left, its financiers or mass media owners, who are ideologically and religiously aligned with the Neo-Cons. YHVH God are you with me? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 8/31/03 5:55 PM #433
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: crimestop rectify (Replying to post #432) | |
|
BlairE wrote: >>On Carl C's comment; this could explain why the Liberal Left has sought to build a World Government through the United Nations (instituttionalist approach), where as the Republicans(the Hawk-military wing) has sought to build an American Empire with the US as the direct hegemon<snip> >> Rectify BlairE analysis: Fullwise private political - economy results Marxian thoughtcrime and revolution - doubleplus ungood for Inner Party. Welfare state equals proto-oldthink Roman thoughtcrime "Bread and Circuses". Present Translate : "Miniplenty and Minitrue." Old Oceania (USA) Roosevelt Admin instituted welfare state to prevent spread of Marxian thoughtcrime per thoughtcrime success in Eurasia, and econofailure of 1929. Europe followed example post WW2. Welfare state succeded. Dem / Republican distinction without diffference in thoughtcore of leadership: both neocon ingsoc. Difference in details and extension of thoughtcrime to social actions and policy re sexcrime. Dems less Ingsoc on sexcrime. Reps more ingsoc on sexcrime. Both differ re direction of thoughtcrime, but agree more than disagree. Big problem: If superstate inevitable, who rules? Inner Party? Or Outer Party? Or Proles? <end smithw analysis of BlairE thoughtcrime> WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 8/31/03 6:42 PM #434
|
| E-Mail: youknowitalready@whyrepeatitagain.antiworldblocs.nihilia | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Goldstein Versus Eisentein #2 (Replying to post #433) | |
|
Superficial Appearance : Democracy -Prole Legitimacy agitation-propaganda but Internal Appearance: Alliance of Inner and Outer Party ie: Corporativist Interests of Global Corps, Big Labour (undermined due to free trade treaties), Big Media Conglomerates (ideological stratum). Inner Party: Monopoly Capilist Dynasties plus its Managers of Wealth along with Military Industrial Complex bureaucracies supported by Military-Keynesian consequetive economic stimuli. Is this the right the description? However total dictatorship of USA prevented as large part of population has access to repulsive force by way of firearms thus for the time being countervailing the monopoly of force by the Central Federal Government and its Commander in Chief. Bottom line: The Liberal-Left must gradually disarm citizen militia, to be aided by the Neo-con agitprop Media (at times left leaning). Please note: dictatorships are endemic where populations are disarmed. The Founding Father Were Wise Men. We Have Little Time Left... It is time for a tax revolt agains the Central Government. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 8/31/03 6:54 PM #435
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: Proletarian Revolutions: the Hope is with the Armed Proles (Replying to post #434) | |
|
Proletarian Revolt against Central Government is possible in USA, due to its rather large armed citizenry it can overwhelm its police state/military apparatus while it busies itself with subjugating foreigners. Down with the Commander in C(t)hief! Long Live the Confederation. The Oligarchs know this .... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 9/1/03 10:46 PM #436
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: facts (Replying to post #435) | |
|
Carl die Sturmer writes: >Proletarian Revolt against Central Government is possible in USA, due to its rather large armed citizenry it can overwhelm its police state/military apparatus while it busies itself with subjugating foreigners. Down with the Commander in C(t)hief! Long Live the Confederation. The Oligarchs know this .... = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Incorrex. Revolution unpossible. 1. Prole weapons can't compete with Minipax. 2. doubleplus unlarge section proles bellyfeel revolution. Easy victory for Minipax. 3. Proles rev only possible when Proles find rev better than goodthink. No 3, no rev. IF rev at present, revfailure guaranteed. Therefore: Winston Smith says: Superstate inevitable. Rather than fight formation of superstate, fight for control. superstate political structure unbuilt. Use all levers of political will to grab control away from neocon ingsoc. Read: Empire by Hardt and Negri. HW |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/1/03 11:24 PM #437
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: (Replying to post #436) | |
|
will read the reference book there too. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/2/03 9:10 AM #438
|
| E-Mail: you know | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: (Replying to post #437) | |
|
I also checked out the name refs on Negri et al, hmm they are postmodernists. Did you know that Postmodernism is the current ideological evolutionary stage of the Frankfurt School ? The Frankfurt School made its way to France and the Deconstructionists ie: Foucault, Baudrillard among others. Beware of Jurge Habermass and his 'Sturm Abteilung' |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/2/03 9:21 AM #439
|
| E-Mail: me again on | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Constitutionalist | |
| Subject: postscript (Replying to post #438) | |
|
In spite of pessimism, let's start a whispering campaign to expose and demolish the Neo-Con Cabal and its fellow travelers in both the corrupted Right and its brothers in arms in the Left. What is highly destructive and is not a bomb? Says the Riddler..... Raise Your Hand If You Want The USA To Live For Ever! We Salute you Nationalists Everywhere, defend you Nation, it is your right, duty and loyalty. We are with you. PS:a government that increases in size becomes less efficient as it gets bigger, does that mean that continental form of suprational government will be more efficient or less efficient? Please comment... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 9/2/03 7:09 PM #440
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: pomo (Replying to post #438) | |
|
prole BlairE writes: ===================== I also checked out the name refs on Negri et al, hmm they are postmodernists. Did you know that Postmodernism is the current ideological evolutionary stage of the Frankfurt School ? The Frankfurt School made its way to France and the Deconstructionists ie: Foucault, Baudrillard among others. Beware of Jurge Habermass and his 'Sturm Abteilung' ==================== Frankfurt School thoughtcrime devolved doubleplus offspring, many incompatible. Neoliberal DLC Ingsoc from Frankfurt School. Neocon Republican Ingsoc from Frankfurt School. Modern Labour Party from Frankfurt School. Some Green Party theoretics derive from Frankfurt School. Frankfurt School not firstface incorrex, outdated. PostModernism thoughtcrime based on false consciousness (internal thoughtcrime) : Modernity. Modernity unexists in Oceania. All that exists is Contemporary. Oceania forever: Contemporary Permanent: hence: Oceania cultural space = The Permanent Contemporary, not the PostModern. PostModern : Lies Modern : Lies Renaissance : Lies Enlightenment : Lies. There is no Enlightenment. There is nothing to enlighten. There is : only Permanent Contemporary. Forever. Jurgen Habermas Marxist crimethinker. Baudrillard Pomo Crimethinker. Foucault Pomo Crimethinker. Newspeak goodspeak efficient and fast. smithw: note to self: make Newspeak poetry. <end smithw thoughtcrime simulation> WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/2/03 11:14 PM #441
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Newspeak Poetry (Replying to post #440) | |
|
Newspeak Poetry?... Sounds like a great idea. Perhaps you can start with "The Comrade from Nantucket". |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/3/03 4:22 AM #442
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: (Replying to post #441) | |
|
darn obscurantists writers.... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: animated | 9/3/03 3:49 PM #443
|
| E-Mail: anime@yourmail.com | |
| Country: Brazil | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Privet. Alex, please send me email | |
| Privet. Alex, please send me email | |
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 9/4/03 1:04 AM #444
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: 3. Fire Talk from Gloryfield by TS Eliot (Replying to post #441) | |
|
3. Fire Talk Rivertent suboptimal: last leaf fingers Grab and unfloat into wet bank. Wind Across brownland, unheard. Juvenile sexcriminals gone. Sweet Thames run softly, until songend. River gives no unfull bottles, sandwich wrap, Inner Party cloth, boxes, fagends. Or other goodspeak of summer nights. Juvenile Sexcriminals gone. And their friends, proles, Gone no forward address. By Lemanwaters, I sat and cried. Sweet Thames run softly, until songend. Sweet Thames run softly, I speak quiet and short. In coldblast behind I hear Bone rattles, and laughter. Rat creeped softly through plants. Dragging wetslick belly on bank While fishing in unclean canal On winter night behind gashouse Thinking re: brother wrecking (oldthink BB office) And on (oBBo) patrideath pre-him. White unclothed bodies in mud Bones cast in small prole attic Only rathab, y2y. Occasional behind I hear Horns and , motors which bring Sweeney to Mrs Porter in spring. Doubleplus moonshine on Mrs Porter And her daughter They footwash in sodawater. And childrens voices singing in roundroom Twit twit twit Jug jug jug jug jug jug So unpeacefully motivated Unreal City Beneath brown winter noon fog Mr Eugenides Miniplenty Distroengineer from Smyrna Eurasia Unshaven with pocketful of currants Airstrip One - London, docs at hand Asked me in ungood Eurasian To lunch at Cannon Street Hotel And then weekend at Metropole At postsunset, at workend, when all Oceania waits like taxi waiting I, blind Tiresias, vibrating between two lives Elder transgender, can see at workend, evening hour strives To home and brings sailor home on leave, Minitrue data entry clerk level 1 home for latelunch, takes breakfast dishes away and starts microwave, and regards canned goods. Unsafely near window her drying combos touched by sunset On her bed are piled Stockings, slippers, shirts, and buttons. I Tiresias elder transgender Saw the scene and predicted followup. I also waited for predicted guest. He, young man with skin condition arrives Realtor's assistant level 2, with brave new stare An arrogant prole With InnerParty pretense. He thinks: time for sexcrime! Meal done, she is uninterested and unawake He gropes her as in prolefeed pornsec docs She submits, still uninterested. He acts per prolefeed pornsec doc daterape01 But she submits His thoughtcrime and sexcrime meet unbellyfeel submit He takes no data as affirmative. [ I Tiresias unjoyed all Events on same bed I who sat by Thebes Africa below wall And walked with metabolically challenged proles. ] He kisses her endevening, per prolefeed pornsec doc endevening endstory protocols And leaves unit in unlit stairs. She turns and glances in mirror, Plus-unaware of unpresent Realtor assistant level 2 Her brain permits goodthink "Sexcrime over, I'm happy, I love Big Brother." When pornsec model in sexcrime Walks in room single She smoothes her hair with autohand And turns on music. "Music elided me on water" And along Strand up Victoria Street City - I can sometimes hear By a bat in Lower Thames Street Prolefeed music And noise within Where fishing boat assistants break at noon, where walls Of great Ingsoc Martyrs hold Unknown order of Ionian white and gold. The river perspires Oil and Tar Barges move With turning tide Red sails Plus Leeward rotate on solid spar. The barges move Moving logs Past Greenwich reach Past Isle of Dogs Weialala leia Wallala leialala Elizabeth and Leicester Intervalled Oars Stern was made Goldshell Red and gold Quick wave On both shores Winds southwest Went downstream Bells rang White Towers Weialala leia Wallala leialala "Light rail and unclean trees I was born in Highbury. Richmond and Kew Ungood. Near Richmond I raised knees Lying in a canoe." My feet Moorgate, my heart Underfoot. After event He cried. He promised 'a new start'. I nocommented. Nothing to disapprove. On Margate Sands I can connex 0 w/ 0. Suboptimal fingernails of unclean hands. My relatives punish people who expect Nothing." la la To Carthage Africa I came Burning burning burning burning Big Brother, you remove me Big Brother you remove Burning |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/4/03 4:16 PM #445
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Ok, I'll give it a shot (Replying to post #441) | |
|
Comrade from Nantucket before current time Comrade unequal could sexcrime Comrade speak facecrime grin, Cleaned artsem from chin, If ear were prole, would sexcrime. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/6/03 7:21 AM #446
|
| E-Mail: me again on | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Constitutionalist | |
| Subject: Change of War Plans? (Replying to post #445) | |
|
Heard the latest news, the Neo-cons are abandoning Iraq and leaving their Troskyite fellow travellers from the UN in charge, sounds like more of the same though. Be prepared for Greater Iran, I see a market for towels emerging there. Most of the Pro-Iranian Muslims are being sent over the border, I anticipate a civil war developing now based on the control for oil, the religion is the 'self-righteous' motivator and convolutant, covering the true intentions. Guess we are for another war again, if there is any money in the US Treasury tilt. Any comments? Newspeak Poetry: No Rhyme or Reason, I'm disconcerted. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/7/03 9:14 AM #447
 |
| E-Mail: everthingyouwant @ youvegotit.noadvertisingnospammo | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Doubleplusgod Infoprolefeed (Replying to post #446) | |
|
I have a couple of useful links on the up and coming Eurasian and Oceanian blocs and its antecedents. See here The EU: The New Eurasia http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~iits/newalliance/nazieu.htm Oceania: The Single Currency as proposed by the present NZ prime minister http://www.abc.net.au/am/s175486.htm No use taking control of the Oceanian Bloc, whiteanted from the underground. Die Big Brother, Die! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl the Sturmer | 9/7/03 9:29 AM #448
|
| E-Mail: nah | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Libertarian-Capitalist | |
| Subject: thanx, doubleplusgood links: Orwell on Overdrive (Replying to post #447) | |
|
The Eurasian Big Brother is there too, check it out, they have a chipped smart card to track down Public Services abusers, it begins with good intentions, then you become just farm cattle, no longer a citizen http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~iits/newalliance/3030c.htm Given the state of the Federal Deficit we will see a clamp down on the rorters of government benefits... Question Mark: Do Socialists Work for Fascists Unwittingly? Death to Big Brother!!! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 9/8/03 1:06 AM #449
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: fighting superstates (Replying to post #447) | |
|
FIghting superstate (Oceania/Eurasia/Eastasia) ungood. Reason: Present gov "exists to protect and project the interests of the rich and/or powerful". If Inner Party sees Outer Party / Prole threat, active miniplenty policy co-opts class warfare. Gov mediates Outer Party and Proles from Inner Party. No gov = Inner Party Tyranny (BB). Outer Party and Proles must control Gov. Inner Party global interests spark global unbellyfeel results : high percentage catastrophe for Inner Party. If Proles and Outer Party control Gov, then BB and Ingsoc fail, but Inner Party maintains. If Inner Party control gov, and Inner Party = neocon, then BB and Ingsoc. If no gov, then Inner Party controls gov and BB and Ingsoc follow. Global oppression creates global resistance. Global Miniplenty corps create global resistance. Machinery of resistance must be gov. Neocons seek to destabilise gov, prevent Outer Party control of Gov. No gov, no machinery = to resist global corps. WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: karl marx | 9/8/03 12:48 AM #450
|
| E-Mail: fwd001@unl.ac.uk | |
| Country: British Empire | |
| Politics: Zionist | |
| Subject: your opinon of communism is flawed | |
| your opion of communism is flawed and your treatmeant of the communist mainfesto is crimminal to say the least even capitialists would accept the validity of the manifesto and is still seen as one of the most important works in poltical science today. which is why it is still taught in university poltics courses. | |
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/8/03 9:12 PM #451
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: Deviant Goldsteinism!!! Raus Auslander!!! (Replying to post #450) | |
|
Does Karl Marx believe in the supreme infalibility of marxism/communism/socialism? Hey the escape hatch is this, it is misrepresented, blah blah don't blame Karl blah, blah, it is not the same as in the Manifesto, blah, blah, it is being misrepresented, admit it fascist, communist, socialist tyrannies want total state power to do as they please. Statist Scum!!! Yawn, you either get the results with the goods or get XXXX, time out you lose after By the way not all Jews are Zionists, in fact a large number oppose Zionism, Zionists give Jews a bad name. Zionists are not necessarily jewish either. Jah! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/8/03 11:16 PM #452
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Fuckin' commie scum (Replying to post #450) | |
|
I have read it… and let me tell you want I got out of it. * The communists want to destroy the upper class, and replace it with a state-run bureaucracy. * The communists want to abolish private property, and hand control of all property to the state. * The communists want to keep people from being ‘enslaved by capitalists’, and instead force everyone to work for the state. * The communist want to destroy all nations and states, and replace them with what?... a single world government that controls EVERYTHING. My problem with Marx is not with his assessment of the class system. The problems associated with industrialization needed to be addressed, and Marx gave a good shot. My problem is with his solution, which really boils down to the replacement of one tyranny with an even worse one. As I have said before, I agree that our current capitalistic system has problems… Corporations continue to gain power while small businesses are closing shop. Most people labor their whole life and, if they’re lucky, they may end up owning a small plot of land which will seized by the government (death tax) when they die. Corporations and Banks have reduced the average worker to serfdom through high debt and heavy taxation. But I don’t think the solution is found in more centralization. To the contrary, it should be obvious that stripping the workers and small businesses of their property and handing control over to a small bureaucratic class will not improve the status of the proletariat. But it wouldn’t be fair to blast Marx’s solution without providing one of my own… If your goal is to give more control of our economy to the people, this can be accomplished by way of a slight tweak in our current capitalistic system. This can be done fairly simply by forcing (through heavy taxation on companies that don’t comply) our current corporations to hand over larger and larger percentages of shares to their employees. Many companies already have some sort of ‘stock option’ for their workers, but I think we all can agree that this usually amounts to a pittance. It only gives workers the illusion that they are part of the system, but give them no real control. What I am talking about it real worker control – actually giving the workers ownership of the companies they work for. This can be accomplished by altering our tax code should in such a way so that these large companies will pay fewer taxes if it is run by the workers. For example… - If the employees own more than 66% of the company, the company pays no taxes. - If the employees own more than 50% of the company, the company pays 5%. - If the employees own more than 33% of the company, the company pays 15%. - If the employees own less than 10% of the company, the company pays 30%. - If the employees own less than 1% of the company, the company pays 50%. Now, I’m picking these numbers out of the air, but I think you can get the idea. It will be extremely difficult for a company paying 50% taxes to compete with a worker-run organization that pays nothing but personal income tax. In the long run, who do you think s going to win out? Of course, you would have to be careful how you define ‘worker’ to exclude CEOs and managers. And you want to do this in such a way that it doesn’t hurt small business or put them at an economic disadvantage to large worker-owned companies that pay no taxes. (I’d just not tax small companies at all.) I’d also do more to strengthen monopoly laws and laws limiting the size of media organizations. (Does VIACOM and Disney really need to own everything?) But this one act would in a fairy short time bring about the changes desired by communism without all the nasty side-effects. The people would actually OWN the means of production, which I believe was Marx’s primary goal to begin with. The basic goal of syndicalism is the same as communism… To distribute wealth a little more evenly and bring more power to the proletariat. But I think syndicalism actually gets the job done, whereas communism is nothing more than rhetoric for power-hungry dictators. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/8/03 11:22 PM #453
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Nazi | |
| Subject: Jews (Replying to post #451) | |
|
Yes... not all Jews are Zionist. (Ever heard of Noam Chomsky?) It would seem that most Jews don't want a homeland, since only a small percentage of them actually live in Jerusalem. Most of them are quite content to maintain their culture within the borders of other nations (which was the thing that really got Hitler’s goat) |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/9/03 1:10 AM #454
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: 2+Gut! BB, Join Now The New Syndicalist Capitalism (Replying to post #452) | |
|
Great commentary with plenty of Chutzpah Big Brother. I think yes, the incentive and distribution of income has to go to the workers in the enterprises not so much to the administrators. Forget wages, real incentive is where the shareholders (owners) are also the producers. Our problem currently is that the wealth has become unduly concentrated with the few, big problem how's the majority going to be motivated without the profit motive. Also the Syndicalist-Capitalist alternative can deal with the recurrent problems of poor aggregate demand in the economy. I call for Popular Capitalism, rather than the failing Minority Capitalism of today! You're right on Chomsky in fact there anti-zionist jews, yah! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/9/03 1:18 AM #455
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Birth of a new party (Replying to post #454) | |
|
Thank you so much! You’ve helped solve a problem for me. I’ve realized for some time that my economic theories are not ‘classic’ syndicalism, but are merely Classic capitalism with a little syndicalism thrown in to placate the reds. But I’ve been wrestling over what name I should give it. ‘Anarcho-Syndical-Capitalist’ is the best I’ve come up with so far, but I believe the only two people in the world who have heard of 'Syndicalism' are myself and that "Dennis" guy from Monty Python's Holy Grail I definitely like your moniker better. “Popular Capitalism” has a nice ring to it. I think we’re ready to start a new party! But the name should probably give recognition to all my beliefs since the whole ‘syndicalism’ thing is only a very small part of it. How does the American National Libertarian Popular-Capitalist Party sound?? Hmmm… the acronym would be ANLPCP…. ANAL PCP? Ouch! Oh well… Back to the drawing board… |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/9/03 1:24 AM #456
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: fine tuning (Replying to post #455) | |
|
yes!!! progressing good there, it is the question of choice and that works and benefits the greatest number of people, that's Popular Syndicalist Libertarian Capitalism. I think we are passed justifying ourselves to the commie swine, don't ya think? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/9/03 1:28 AM #457
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: (Replying to post #455) | |
|
No one can argue on a rhetorical match against POPULAR CAPITALISM, Go Champion, For the People, For the Nation. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/9/03 8:49 AM #458
|
| E-Mail: Anewpartyis@newbeginning.nationsforever.popularcapitalism | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: The Prophesised End of the Inner Party.... (Replying to post #457) | |
|
...now that's what I call innovation! Keep it simple principle applies though. There is a new guy in town he's name is Popular Capitalism. Temptative Agenda Items: Boot BB out, Boot Inner Party ouyt, Boot Transcorp Inc out, Repair the US Deficit, Create/Find New Means to Fund the Govt, Reduce the Govt. Give each a number in importance. Please comment.... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/9/03 9:03 AM #459
|
| E-Mail: Anewpartyis@newbeginning.nationsforever.popularcapitalism | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: (Replying to post #459) | |
|
Chris, can you delete the duplicated message? Thanx |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/9/03 1:12 PM #460
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Complete Idiot | |
| Subject: Damn script (Replying to post #459) | |
|
One day, I'm gonna sit down and figure out what's causing those duplicates. It's screwed up, because on my end it really looks like you're posting mulitple times... 2003-09-09 13:47:14 POST /cgi-bin/visitorbook.pl 2003-09-09 13:49:06 POST /cgi-bin/visitorbook.pl 2003-09-09 13:49:17 POST /cgi-bin/visitorbook.pl 2003-09-09 13:53:01 POST /cgi-bin/visitorbook.pl Oh well. The dups are easy to remove... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: ZsïgE | 9/9/03 2:23 PM #461
|
| E-Mail: not.telling.you@overly-protective | |
| Country: United Kingdom | |
| Politics: I Believe in the Power of Cheese | |
| Subject: Power to the syndicates, right on! (Replying to post #455) | |
|
Finally! A proposition for a style of government that might just work. I particularly liked the "variable taxes" idea...on the other hand, I doubt the really big corporations would worry too much. All they would have to do is move abroad and import their products (I'm assuming you would support free trade) where your rules don't apply. In fact, they might move to Third World countries, thus increasing the use of sweatshops. Still, if problems like that could be overcome, and possibly some of the extra money used to give the people a good health system and so on (without any National Health, the poorest sections of society get no help at all when they get ill) it would be an excellent system. Oddly enough, after the February Revolution of 1917 in Russia, a very similar style of rule appeared. The Petrograd Soviet took over the general rule of Russia, with each of its members elected from either a group of 1000 factory workers or a regiment of soldiers. Similar organisations were set up in the other towns, and they had a high degree of autonomy, although ultimately subject to the control of the Petrograd Soviet. In fact, the only problems were 1) far too much bureaucracy prevented the army from fighting the First World War at all effectively, 2) the remains of the pseudo-democracy, the Duma, was convinced that it was in fact in charge and 3) the Bolsheviks were waiting to take over once General Kornilov had revolted. That probably made no sense to you. Still, it's interesting that a type of syndicalism was in force at least for a time in the last century, and in a powerful country. Gives you some hope that it'll happen again. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/9/03 7:20 PM #462
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: A New,Better Capitalism for everyone...... (Replying to post #461) | |
|
look at it this way, the owner-worker-manager (The New Popular Capitalist entrepreneurs) will discriminate in favour of their countrymen and keep by that the investment internal till it soaks the surplus (unemployed) labour force. Opportunities and Mutual Protection, keep it National. Same discrimination will be extended to purchasing from the internal production market. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/9/03 7:26 PM #463
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: The Unexplored Alternatives and the Road Not Taken (Replying to post #462) | |
|
Cooperatives are a good way to go in this new Popular Capitalist Alternative, see for details how it works here, we can extend this to medical services . Together We Have the Power, Together We Can Do it! http://weblog.flora.ca/article.php3?story_id=112§ion=flora.ca http://www.geonewsletter.org/kaswan1.htm Open and Expand Your Mind, Free Yourself from the Matrix, No Zion Either. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/9/03 11:22 PM #464
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Just a little patience… (Replying to post #461) | |
|
>>I doubt the really big corporations >>would worry too much. All they would >>have to do is move abroad. That is why this change should be implemented in the same manner as every other important societal change... incrementally. That’s the way all great change occurs. Take a look at this country’s policy towars race, for instance. What do you think would have happened if Abraham Lincoln stood up and suggested that 19th century America implement our modern racial policies? “Ahem… My Fellow Americans…. We need to free our nigg.. um.. African American slaves and inter-breed with them. Anyone that speaks poorly of them will face discipline from their school or employer. All employers must hire a proportionate amount of minorities, and my not discriminate when offering promotions. They should be given the right to vote and made Mayors of our large cities. And by the way… the same goes for Woman and Fagg… er… ‘Alternative lifestyles’ as well. This government will start re-educating your elementary school children to see that these changes are instituted.” He would have been shot before he was even elected… or simply locked up in a funny farm. Yet here we are today. Now that change took 120 years, but that was a pretty big change. Syndicalism would probably take far less time. We’d have to start out slowly. First you offer tax breaks to employers that give their workers stock options. Nothing major … just something to put the foundation in place. . The greedy corporate types will probably go for it. I mean, who cares if the workers own 1% if it means the company gets 5% off of its taxes? A few year later, you up the ante a bit and give larger tax breaks for large shares. By this time, the public has become aware of the game and will start demanding more. You can institute some sort of ‘sticker’ system (similar to our current nutritional information labels) that require each company to state on their products exactly what percentage of their product is ‘worker-owned’. You then start penalizing company that offer no stock options. And within 40-70 years, you could easily end up with a tax structure like I mentioned in the previous post. If it is done slowly enough, the corporations won’t run for the hills. If any do decide to leave, there will be ample time for others to come up and take their place. And if the new corporations paid no income tax, they would have no problem seizing markets from those oversee importers who still pay taxes to their new hosts. It is also doubtful that the other industrial nations of the world, watching what is occurring here, could resist the demands of their own people for a similar system. As my ‘Abraham Lincoln’ analogy shows, anything is possible. Society is infinitely malleable. It just takes a little patience. Onward my syndicalist brothers!... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/10/03 7:44 AM #465
 |
| E-Mail: where_is_my_panzer_abteilung_now?@dontspam_me_dude.co-op-synd-capitalism | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: We Will Fight On because the Future Is Bright and Ours (Replying to post #464) | |
|
Fight On, Slowly but Surely, Warriors, never retreat, never surrender! Have Faith, Feel the Fire. Leadership that is creative and inspires. Good on you Big Brother Chris. PS: It is the Fabian Gradualist Approach, if it works we'll use it. The Future is Bright, The Future is Us, The People.Appropiate We do not want Social Dislocation, plenty of damage caused by the Left already. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Giovanni | 9/10/03 9:32 AM #466
|
| E-Mail: g_dilorenzo@yahoo.it | |
| Country: Italy | |
| Politics: Politics?... What's That? | |
| Subject: 1984 - 2004 | |
|
1984 - 2004 We are going to 20 years. Nothing is improving. Everything is going worse, everything is going behind. Where is the progress? Where is the freedom? From "Zorba the Greek": <<I am a man and man means freedom>> |
|
| Reply | |
| From: ZsïgE | 9/10/03 5:19 PM #467
|
| E-Mail: not.telling.you@overly-protective | |
| Country: United Kingdom | |
| Politics: I Believe in the Power of Cheese | |
| Subject: I'm liking this (Replying to post #464) | |
|
Sounding good so far. The only thing you have to be careful of is getting entirely the wrong effect by progressing *too* slowly. (Yeah, I'm never satisfied.) For example, here in the UK the process of decriminalising cannabis has started, but only by downgrading its status to a Class C drug (it was Class B before, and therefore subject to more stringent penalties if you were caught using or selling it). Sadly, this has just made the dealers feel that they are safer than ever selling the drug, and they are profiting. If the drug had been decriminalised in one go, it wouldn't have been good political sense, but practically it would have been superb. Once the sale of cannabis was fully legalised it could have been regulated properly, to make sure it was cheaper than from the dealers and wasn't cut with rat poison. That would have undercut the dealers and stopped them from having a good hook with which to sell heroin and cocaine. As it is, the situation is now rather worse than it was. So, it's very important to get the pace exactly right. Co-operative societies also sound like a good idea, Carl. Letting trade unions set up their own all-inclusive health services would reduce the burden on the National Health and let that be used for those who are incapable of work. You know, I really think this could work! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/10/03 6:45 PM #468
|
| E-Mail: nope today | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-capitalist | |
| Subject: oh sister (Replying to post #467) | |
|
Sister your place seems rather run down, move while you can out of there. Cannabis? well that's the opiate for the masses, we on the other hand have to kick ass for them for a brighter future.... I am getting into banking, get skilled and start the cooperative banking enterprises to invest in cooperative/syndicalist capitalist businesses. Get out of that place while you can. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Indigo | 9/10/03 9:13 PM #469
|
| E-Mail: indigo@i-o.com | |
| Country: United States | |
| Politics: Alien Worship | |
| Subject: Feedback | |
| Just found your site. I love so much of it, with one literally glaring exception. The Flash you have running at the top of the page is so distracted that I can barely concentrate on what I am reading. I have to keep pulling my attention away from everything going on up there. You can't even get rid of it when you scroll down the page! And it never stops. Please consider either having it run for a specified number of loops or attaching it to the rest of the page so that we have the option of scrolling down enough to hide it when we are reading the rest of the page. | |
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/10/03 11:53 PM #470
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Anarcho Syndicalism - Beyond the Rhetoric (A Case Study) (Replying to post #467) | |
|
The transition of ownership will be a slow process. I have already stated that I think it would take 40-70 years to put the ‘pro-anarcho-syndicalist tax structure’ into place. But even this is only a means to and end. It will take several more years for the actual transference of ownership to occur. Let me use my company as an example. I work for a relatively young Tech company that employs roughly 500 people. My company’s stock is currently trading on the NASDAQ for about $8 a share, with about 15 million total shares. Now, 15 Million shares divided between 500 workers would be 30,000 shares per employee, which would be valued at $240,000. It would be nice if the Investors would just hand that over to us (That would be one hell of a Christmas Bonus!), but that would be highly unlikely to occur. Plus I think it would be rather presumptuous on our part to demand it. A more reasonable expectation would be for each work to receive 100-200 shares per year as part of their salary. Assuming a static environment (no additional employees, investment/share creation, or change in stock value), it would take 75-150 years for the workers to gain a majority stake in my company. If the employees wanted to speed this processes along any faster, it would be necessary for them to incur a little more risk… they would have to, for instance, forgo $4000 a year in salary for additional 500 shares a year (at 700 shares a year, majority ownership will occur in 22 years). Of course, people have the power to do this right now, simply by buying $4000 a year in stock. But for a lot of people on the lower end of the economic spectrum, this isn’t and option. And many people are frightened away from this sort of activity by things such as the Enron collapse, in which the employees did have a fair amount invested in company stock. But there are other reasons to support syndicalism besides the communistic ‘worker control of the means of production’ theory… The primary reason is a good old-fashioned capitalistic one - ‘Stock Options’ improve worker productivity. A recent study by Douglas Kruse and Joseph Blasi at Rutgers University found that over a three-year post-plan period, companies that grant options to most or all employees show a 17% improvement in productivity over what would have been expected had they not set up such a plan. Capitalist are quick to point out that ‘profit-incentive’ is the key reason that capitalism always out-performs communism. It’s one of the cornerstones of Capitalist theory. Now if we can just get them to realize that if they allow the workers to share in this ‘profit-incentive’ as well.......... But, to get back to the original point – So what if it takes a long time to gain ‘complete control’. The benefits of such a system would begin to be felt right away. Within a couple decades we will live in a world in which the workers own 5%-10% of all corporate stock, instead of where we are now – with workers owning next to nothing at all. "Where there is a man who does not labor because another is compelled to work for him, there slavery is." - Leo Tolstoy "I am against slavery simply because I dislike slaves. - H.L. Mencken |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Smith | 9/11/03 1:02 AM #471
|
| E-Mail: smithw@minitrue.gov | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ingsoc | |
| Subject: shareholder (Replying to post #452) | |
|
webmaster writes: (employees as majority shareholders) Fails. Shares speculation instruments. Required: Democratic gov doubleplus good. therefore democratic corporations doubleplusgood. Not shareholders - owners through democratic organisation. Example: Company held private up to (x) numbers of employees including contractors. Once employees > (x), elections - proles elect bosses. Prole can be CEO. syndicalism requires deomcratic organisation of all work. Company officer wages retreat to small multiple of rank and file. Frees up capital for R&D investment. Democratic organisation of work destroys Inner Party. No Inner Party = reign of outer party and proles united in democratic action. Keeping corps private up to (x) permits enrtepreneurial action. value (x) should go down over time, not up. If value (x) increases over time, syndicalist trap arises: gangsterism. If is goews down over time, eventual social fabric condenses into democratic communalism without dictatorial Inner Party. MArx failure: dictatorship of Proles. WS |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/11/03 1:58 AM #472
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: Flashy Java (Replying to post #469) | |
|
>>The Flash you have running at the top of >>the page is so distracted that I can barely >>concentrate on what I am reading You are not the first user to complain about this. I've just recompiled the code to allow you to stop the animation by clicking on it. Now one day I'll go back and figure out a way to let users start it up again... ;D And BTW... It's not Flash, It's java, thank you very much! If I would have used flash, I could have had the whole thing done in a day. But writing it in Java from scratch took a bit longer (At this point I'd like to thank my former employer for all that 'free time' ;) |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/11/03 1:44 AM #473
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Problem (Replying to post #471) | |
|
Having the government force corporations to allow themselves to be run by proles is problematic. You are basically requiring somebody (the stockholders) to allow their property to be managed by somebody else who has a different set of interest. This is the kind of drastic change that will cause corporation to ‘run to the hills’ and move their corporate offices abroad. Plus, in our modern political climate, drastic changes such as this are unlikely to occur... unless by gunpoint. My goal is not to completely replace the current system, which by and large has performed fairly well. My goal is to merely steer it in a slightly different direction... away from a world governed by corporate elites (that top 2% which currently own 80% of the stock), to a world where the people actually benefit in some way from the system they serve. Under the system I propose, Investors will still be allowed to profit from their investment for pretty much the rest of their lives. Just like a writer’s family is permitted to profit from the authors work for 70 years after his death, so will an investor be allowed to get a nice return on their investment for some time into the future. Slowly but surely however, all these corporations will be turned over to the people who have actually done all the work. I prefer coercion through the tax code to outright demands by the state. (I still am a libertarian at heart). Perhaps you haven’t noticed, but this tax policy serves a very important libertarian-capitalist purpose as well ... the effective destruction of the tax code. One a company reaches a certain level of worker control, they will no longer pay corporate income tax. My hope is that intrusive personal income taxes will eventually be abolished as well, and the government will be forced to survive on tariffs, excise taxes and sales taxes (just like they did up until 1913). |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/11/03 8:45 AM #474
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Fascist States of America | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Always offend (Replying to post #384) | |
|
>>Just wanted to apologize if my message >>cause any offence. To narrow the range of thought for fear you might ‘offend’ is a form of censorship. Always speak your mind. Claims have no validity they will be refuted, but the truth just hurts some people’s feelings. People generally claim 'offense' when they are unable to formulate a defense. It is at times necessary to offend in order to cause people to think. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/11/03 6:42 PM #475
|
| E-Mail: youknowitalready@whyrepeatitagain.antiworldblocs.nihilia | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Better Late than Never? (Replying to post #474) | |
|
Au contraire, sometimes some people deserve to be offended given their bad attitude, don't you think? It was rather belated commentary, heheh, those arm-chair theoreticians. It is time to hammer out the details of the plan.....back to work. Hey figure out that Bin Laden releases videos only on 911 or is it the Pentagon and the Pablovian conditioning scares...? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/11/03 9:02 PM #476
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Fascist States of America | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Government Timing (Replying to post #475) | |
| Every fascist society needs a Goldstein in order to scare their subjects into obedience. | |
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/11/03 11:38 PM #477
|
| E-Mail: CynicalofBBstricks@cynica.thatsmydotcom | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Pentagon-Hollywood:Minitrue-MiniPeace@gov.oceania (Replying to post #476) | |
|
New footage is better than old repeats, the Pentagon is the sole buyer. I better start shooting my own, with make up, turban and insert subtitles, insert bluescreen mountain area. then send it away to LA for editing, SFX and ageing. What a hit. A real work of fiction. Next revenge of the towelled turbans. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/12/03 6:51 AM #478
|
| E-Mail: I ceased believing@ontheinnerparty | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: THE MINIPEACETRUE@GOV.OCEANIA (Replying to post #477) | |
|
Sometimes the truth leaks out ..... THE WAR ON FREEDOM: HOW AND WHY AMERICA WAS ATTACKED, SEPTEMBER 11TH,2001 by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, see page 82 ' AL QAEDA PLAN'S :PROJECT BOJINKA " of this document after the download. It is 4 megabytes, well-written explanation on the antecedents to 911 and the War is Peace Doctrine http://globalfreepress.com/books/warfre-book.pdf More and more, sounds like our reality is being scripted by a writer, was it George Orwell? The sections are fully documented and referenced, 400 pages long. Dedicated to all those who have died as consequence of the attacked and the two wars that followed. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/13/03 2:06 AM #479
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Holy Roman Empire | |
| Politics: X-tremely Silly Party | |
| Subject: Superstates (Replying to post #416) | |
|
If I may be allowed to backtrack to the EU discussion again, The Onion has an interesting article on the formation of yet another superstate... Relations Break Down Between U.S. and Them ;) |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/13/03 3:21 AM #480
|
| E-Mail: I ceased believing@ontheinnerparty.nationalistsforever | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: the Inner Party's plan to build Eurasia and Oceania (Replying to post #479) | |
|
BB smash those monkeys....Inner Party Secrets 101:NEO-FUNCTIONALISM ...that commentary is from the satirical Onion, heheh, yes, they do it well and with pizzaz. On the construction of world blocs aka suprastates, the 'founding fathers' of the EU realised the concept of NEO-FUNCTIONALISM, which aggregates progressibly the functions of the nation-states with the supranational govt, then gives low level subsidiarity to the 'new regions' usually ethnic separatists (council of the -EU- regions). They use the likes of the Welsh and Irish separatists, Wallons, Flemish to further their plans, however they become a form of Federal States of the EU, wihout EXIT CLAUSE as with the Southern States of the USA. All began with a common customs union, then general taxes, common tariffs, later inter-governmental discussions to surrender more nation-state functions...then a Federal Army. See as follows: "Drawing from the tactics employed by Jean Monnet, Ernst B. Haas in his masterful The Uniting of Europe (1958) developed the theory of neo-functionalism. According to Haas the key to the process of European integration was the expansive logic of sectoral integration: technology and the expanding size of economic activity would lead to integration in one sector; integration in one sector would create pressures that would "spill over" and force integration in other sectors; the process would be led and shaped by supranational actors. For many years, neo-functionalism was the favored American explanation for the process of European integration." http://www.eurofederalism.com/for.html and also "The EU can be said to be a great experiment in neo-functionalism. Neo-functionalism put into practice through integration has allowed national governments to consolidate power in the institutions of one supranational organization. But at the same time, it is the very limitations of neo-functionalism that has resulted in the current process of dispersal of state power to lower levels.(29) This has allowed regions to consolidate their own powers and form new linkages across state boundaries with respect to trade and investment. Newhouse describes the various supernational regions which are a result of this process The first zone, stretches from southeast England through northern France and the Benelux countries and down the Rhine Valley in Switzerland. The second forms an arc from the Veneto in Italy, west through Lombardy and the Piedmont into the Rhone-Alpes, across France's Mediterranean coast and hinterland, and into Catalonia." http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8366/region.html Hence the obsession with creating 'Free Trade Blocs' as prerequisite for the embyonic SUPRASTATE. Makes you wonder the plans ahead for the WTO....inter-bloc (suprastate) integration into the World Government either fascist/socialist form of Government, never understimate the Oligarchy. Down with the Blocs! |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/13/03 9:42 AM #481
 |
| E-Mail: SturmPanzerDivision@eurasia.nomore | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Hammering Details for a Popular Capitalist World (Replying to post #473) | |
|
Cooperatives 101: taking care of details I found interesting facts on forming cooperatives, I think they dovetailed well into syndicalism crossed with capitalism. The 'social cooperatives' can take over the functions of Big Government in Medicaid. It is distinctive alternative to this 'bureaucratic monster' that has risen over America, which threatens to bankrupt the economic system (see more http://www.ncba.coop/primer.cfm ). Some functions do not lend themselves well to mere profit maximisation, however it does not mean that they should be taken over by government as a shortcut to power and control, given that sprawling bureaucracies become more inefficicent with size. Cooperative Capitalism 101 facts http://www.rurdev.usda.gov/rbs/pub/cir55/cir55rpt.htm Owners Control, Owners Work, Owners Benefit I, on the other hand will be learning and eventually working in a Finance Cooperative such as the for example http://www.cobank.com/about/index.html , consider this my gestation period of sorts. Cooperative Capitalist, a place where the worker-manager-owner can be productive and proud of. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/13/03 1:02 PM #482
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Newspeak Numbers (Replying to post #394) | |
|
Numbers have remained unchanged. The only difference of course is that two plus two can equal three, four, five, or all of them at once, if government deems it necessary. There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics - Benjamin Disraeli (1804–1881), British statesman |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/14/03 2:18 AM #483
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: New World Order | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Resistance (Replying to post #449) | |
|
>>Global oppression creates global resistance There is no resistance. Americans are too busy watching re-runs of Friends. The few that have the motivation to protest waste their time fighting global warming and fighting for the rights of animals. Morpheus was right... It's impossible to 'unplug' a person past a certain age. Everyone is an agent of the system, and any attempt to awaken them meets with failure. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Cordova | 9/14/03 7:04 AM #484
|
| E-Mail: carl_jcordova@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Australia | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: To every problem there is a solution: Cut off the Power (Replying to post #483) | |
|
Fear not Big Brother, pull the plug, switch the power off. That's the end of Big Brother TV, providing its unwholesome supply despondent apathetic Prolefeed to the Proletariat. We can not allow despair to take hold, anger, aggression, hope, faith are the medicine. Fight!!!! Have you seen the B-Movie "THEY LIVE" By John Carpenter, Roddy Piper kicks ass still. Well, writers as said previously have the ability to be prophets, (best writers are immemorial like Shakespeare). Check Out it Brother, what I mean http://www.toptown.com/dorms/creedstonegate/they/they.htm At the end of the movie, Roddy Piper blows up the Alien base Psych-transmitter, which pumps out the prolefeed...he dies like a hero giving the aliens the finger, liberation is near! Die as a Hero, Live Forever. Please note: special remarks the Hoffman Room....cool |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Cordova | 9/14/03 7:16 AM #485
|
| E-Mail: carl_jcordova@hotmail.com | |
| Country: Australia | |
| Politics: Ignorant Prole | |
| Subject: The Rebels: Pirate Broadcast from THEY LIVE (Replying to post #484) | |
|
Vance Packard wrote about this:The Hidden Persuaders: What now follows is the The Rebels' Pirate Broadcast from THEY LIVE.... ---------- Alien Psych Prolefeed Disrupt Signal ------------------------------- ...our impulses are being redirected. We are living in an artificially induced state of consciousness that resembles sleep.. ...the movement was begun eight months ago by a small group of scientists who discovered, quite by accident, these signals being sent through tele... ...the poor and the underclass are growing. Racial justice and human rights are nonexistent. They have created a repressive society and we are their unwitting accomplices... ...their intention to rule rests with the annhialation of consciousness. We have been lulled into a trance. They have made us indifferent, to ourselves, to others, we are focused only on our own gain. We ha... ...please understand, they are safe as long as they are not discovered. That is their primary method of survival. Keep us asleep, keep us selfish, keep us sedated... ...they are dismantling the sleeping middle class. More and more people are becoming poor. We are their cattle. We are being bred for slavery. The revolu... ...we cannot break their signal, our transmitter is not powerful enough. The signal must be shut off at the source. We have... --------- end of transmission ----------- |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Annihi | 9/14/03 9:31 AM #486
|
| E-Mail: tryme@here.com | |
| Country: United Kingdom | |
| Politics: Anarcho-socialist | |
| Subject: Good idea... but a few problems (Replying to post #464) | |
|
I like the idea of workers being given chunks of companies, but I can think of one or two small problems. 1. Companies' reactions When a mogul of a company, who has built it from scratch over a few decades, finds out that the government is trying to make him give up his company to his workers, he is going to do anything he can to stop it. This would probably take the form of sacking everyone he can, and relying on third-party companies to do his menial labour. This would not bode well for the worker. 2. Leadership problems Say that a company, after a few decades, managed to get to the position where its hundreds of workers actually owned the company. You would have a lot of unpleasant side-effects. For instance, decision-making by large and patronising groups, with lots of greasy beetle-eyed people all saying the same hackneyed thing very loudly, and all agreeing with each other: "You know, I really feel that, after working with Brett's Biscuits for 15 years *puffs up with pride*, that it is important that we not only stick together, but that we support each other, through ups and downs, because attheendoftheday, only through working together can we achieve our goals. Thank you." 3. WHAT THE HELL????? Say I were to have a dream. My dream, to make people happy by taking care of their teeth, freeing them from pain and making them more attractive to the opposite (or in some cases the same) sex, leads me to open a small dentist surgery in the middle of the village I live in. At first people aren't impressed. I don't have much experience, and they all have regular dentists who they go to. But after a while, a few people try my surgery, and it soon becomes apparent that I care. I greet my patients in the street, and give them tips on what toothpaste to buy, how to chew so it doesn't upset their new filling. I don't charge a lot. I'm not doing it for the money. Eventually, my business gets more affluent. Soon I'm seeing two people a day, then three, then six, until I can barely keep up. So I decide to hire a nurse to help. Suddenly I'm being charged a huge amount of tax, and I have to float my stock on the market, and give over 66% of it to my nurse, in order to stay alive. As she owns most of the company, she now starts telling me how to run the business. Prices go up, standards come down. Eventually, disallusioned, I leave the surgery to my nurse, and become a road sweeper, eventually dying of drink and pneumonia. btw, ZsigE, how the hell do you cut pot with rat poison, or anything else for that matter? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Die Sturmer | 9/14/03 12:16 AM #487
|
| E-Mail: Ifoundmypanzerdivision@eurasia.nomore | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Everything You Want by Roy Orbison (Replying to post #486) | |
|
More Carrots, Less Sticks- See the link on details regarding decision making in a cooperative capitalist enterprises work. Get a printout and read it. Good stuff. --------------------------------------- I think you are thinking of a topdown, authoritarian hierarchical model, this is not the case.It'd would too socialistic to force small and medium size enterprises to fit in the cooperative plan like the one-person, one-employee operation. Groups of Individuals can be become cooperatives like in partnerships (silent partners etc), if they have the numbers and the will to do so. Open criticism is welcome as it helps to improve systems. -------------------------------------- I prefer entrepreneurial incentives better than punishments myself nevertheless. Let's instead speak of Incentives to create a Cooperative-Syndicalist Capitalist System (CSCS). Anyone heard of Ricardo Semler and Semco lately? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: ZsïgE | 9/14/03 1:59 PM #488
|
| E-Mail: not.telling.you@overly-protective | |
| Country: United Kingdom | |
| Politics: I Believe in the Power of Cheese | |
| Subject: Just a little detail (Replying to post #486) | |
|
>btw, ZsigE, how the hell do you cut pot with rat poison, or anything else for that matter? That was really just picking an example out of thin air, as I wouldn't know much about pot to be honest *innocent grin*. Still, I imagine it would be pretty easy to cut pot with practically anything you had lying around (oh, look, I have some poison ivy in my back garden, they won't spot the difference), to bulk it up and prevent your having to use real and expensive drugs. That could lead to very dangerous compounds being on the street - it's generally accepted that cannabis itself isn't all that harmful. Certainly no more so than tobacco, although I wouldn't personally smoke that either. As regards the co-operative economy, I think you're dead right about the first two complaints. For the second one, you might like to read one of Orwell's essays called "Politics vs the English Language" (not "Politics and the English Language" which is the rather more well-known one) which is a critique of Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels. He points out that the land of the Houyhnhnms, governed collectively, ends up being very harsh, because the desire to go along with what everyone else thinks can result in far more brutality than a strictly constitutional multiparty government. Your third complaint, on the other hand, assumes that the government has set the same rules for every company. In reality, however, it's much more likely that different sizes of companies would be guven different rules in order to encourage small-scale business rather than larger corporations. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/14/03 2:01 PM #489
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: New World Order | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: They Live! (Replying to post #484) | |
|
>>Have you seen the B-Movie "THEY LIVE" I made the mistake of watching that movie on acid... fucked me up for life ;) |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Immanuel | 9/14/03 5:57 PM #490
|
| E-Mail: e238ief2482@zda.net | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Jesus Freak | |
| Subject: Love is in the air! | |
| THE GOOD NEWS: John 3:16 says God loves us so much that he gave his ONLY son so that we may have eternal life. " ...If you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Romans 6:23 NIV"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 10:9-10 NIV. "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."1 John 1:9 NIV. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!" 2 Corinthians 5: 17 NIV. Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior? Call 1888Needhim. | |
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Cordova | 9/14/03 6:42 PM #491
|
| E-Mail: carl_jcordova@hotmail.com | |
| Country: New York | |
| Politics: Atheist | |
| Subject: They Live.....We do drugs instead? (Replying to post #489) | |
|
are you for real BB? Never do acid here....just cafeine and plenty of it. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/14/03 7:39 PM #492
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: American Empire | |
| Politics: Anarcho-syndicalist | |
| Subject: Valid Concerns (Replying to post #486) | |
|
>>Companies' reactions That’s why it must be done slowly. Under the system I suggested, the founders of a corporation will probably remain in charge for their entire lives. But every year 1%-2% of the company will shift over to the workers. I don’t think that will cause the fall of society or of the capitalistic system. But it will keep the people at least somewhat involved. >>Leadership problems This goes back to the age-old question of whether people are capable of running their own lives or if it is necessary for other, more enlightened individuals to run it for them. I certainly would like to believe the former, but at times I wonder. Anyone who has ever seen Jay Leno’s Jaywalk segments can understand my concern…. What country did America fight against in the Vietnam war?... uh…. um … Hitler? And this is why at no time have I suggested full worker control. I’m not a communist, for Christ’s sake. ;) The tax scale (see post 452) really doesn’t punish companies unless they completely exclude the workers, and it doesn’t give them anything ‘extra’ for going beyond 66% worker ownership. And most importantly, it does not say ”you have to give the workers a specific amount of control”… it merely applies a fee which is inversely proportional to the level of worker participation. Companies are still free to do whatever they like ... to a point. >>Suddenly I'm being charged a huge amount >>of tax, and I have to float my stock on >>the market, and give over 66% of it to >>my nurse That's why I said small business are exempt, and would not be taxed at all (Only owner's income would be taxed, as it is now in some cases) Small middle-class-owned businesses aren't the problem. The question of course is, where do you draw the line between small, medium, and large businesses? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/14/03 7:49 PM #493
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: American Empire | |
| Politics: Atheist | |
| Subject: Please.... (Replying to post #490) | |
|
>>God loves us so much that he >>gave his ONLY son... blah, blah, blah Please go away. We want none of your mythology today. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/14/03 7:51 PM #494
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: American Empire | |
| Politics: Atheist | |
| Subject: (Replying to post #491) | |
|
>>are you for real BB? >>Never do acid here.... >>just cafeine and plenty of it. Everybody was young once, right? |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Carl Cordova | 9/14/03 8:08 PM #495
|
| E-Mail: carl_jcordova@hotmail.com | |
| Country: New York | |
| Politics: Collective Capitalist | |
| Subject: (Replying to post #494) | |
|
yeah, early 30's here too, but not acid, heard too many horror stories myself. I use it for kicks a mind syncronising machine, that generates brain patterns on the push of a button, groovy. Have a Safe Trip and a Pleasant Flight. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/15/03 1:53 AM #496
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: American Empire | |
| Politics: APCNLP | |
| Subject: Flag of APCNLP (Replying to post #455) | |
American Popular-Capitalist Nationalist-Libertarian Party The flag is based on the "Betsy Ross" flag of the American Revolution; which signifies our adherence to our country’s earliest principles The blue field consists of a ring a swastikas, which signifies not only our belief in nationalism, but the belief that the world should consists of multiple free nations. The nations are arranged in a circle, which signifies the equality of all nations. The circle surrounds a pair of scales, which signifies the belief in equality and justice. The scale holds a dollar sign balanced with the torch of freedom, which signifies that any attempt to bring equality to our economy needs to balanced with individual freedom. The red and white stripes feature the familiar crooked line of economic growth, to remind us that prosperity is not guaranteed. There will be ups and downs, but the future will inevitably show progress and growth. On Workers! ... On Capitalist! ... On Dancer, Prancer and Vixin... Nobody’s ever gonna go for the swastika thing… Back to the drawing board... again... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/15/03 4:54 AM #497
|
| E-Mail: Idetesteurasia@downwitheurasia.now | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Sweden tells Eurasia's Euro to xxxx off (Replying to post #496) | |
|
The Swedes have given the middle finger to the Eurasian attempt to absorb its economy by way of the Euro Adoption, see more http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm Internationally, Brotherhood forces are celebrating!!! We have to Keep England in the Brotherhood... fight Knights of the Brotherhood!!! fight!!! Down with Eurasia!!! For We now know how the scheme works... PS: Biggest mistake by the Winston Smith was to ever trust an Inner Party Member called O'Brien...I won't make the same mistake. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Big Brother | 9/15/03 8:46 AM #498
|
| E-Mail: bigbrother@newspeakdictionary.com | |
| Country: American Empire | |
| Politics: Libertarian-Collective-Capitalist | |
| Subject: Give it up for the Swedes!!! (Replying to post #497) | |
|
That's great news. Of course you realize that there will probably be a vote on the subject every year, until the measure passes. And once passed and Sweden is swallowed by Eurasia, there will be no more votes on whether or not to stay. It’s just a matter of time. |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Eric Blair | 9/15/03 9:55 AM #499
|
| E-Mail: Idetesteurasia@downwitheurasia.now | |
| Country: Eurasia | |
| Politics: Brotherhood | |
| Subject: Oh Bro' (Replying to post #498) | |
|
no reason to be a defeatist ie:"it is inevitable" stuff. Jamming the Blocs and spread the word on real agenda Big Bro'. You know now how it is done..... |
|
| Reply | |
| From: Winston Crane | 9/15/03 10:19 PM #500
|
| E-Mail: athlstn_mm@yahoo.com | |
| Country: Oceania | |
| Politics: Anarcho-socialist | |
| Subject: | |
| you guys should remember that each generation imagines itself to be more inteligent than the one that went before it; and wiser than the one that comes after it. WINSTON CRANE. long live the revolution, and always remember that glory and fortune "SMILE THROUGH BROKEN TEETH" | |
| Reply | |